Breakdown: The Lovegoods!

In this episode, we break down Xenophilius and Luna Lovegood. Enjoy!

Summary/Topics:
·     A huge thanks to Milly for this wonderful episode idea! Email ThePotterDiscussion@gmail.com if you want your idea featured on the show.

·     To begin, we should lay a solid foundation for own characters. We’re looking both Xenophilius and Luna today because understanding one will help us know more about the other.

·     We meet Luna in the Order of the Phoenix. It’s hard to know if Luna is joking or completely serious, which made for a strange but true introduction to her character. 

·     Harry meets Xenophilius at Bill and Fleur’s wedding at first. Harry was more used to the Lovegoods at that point, but it was still an unsettling encounter.

·     Where do they fit into the story? Is it a big role? If they appear a bunch but don’t make a large difference, we shouldn’t consider them main characters. However, they do. Luna is the character that doesn’t really have a place. She’s pushed around and bullied, and Luna must find a place to settle, and does so in the DA. Xenophilius is in a similar boat. He doesn’t fit into any groups, so he must make his own. That element doesn’t go great, as the Death Eaters take Luna because of what Xenophilius was printing in the newspaper.

·     So, do Xenophilius and Luna have a big role in the story? Well, they aren’t the main characters but also aren’t in the background. They aren’t horrible or great. Let’s start with Xenophilius. For importance, we’ll give him a 57/100. He doesn’t appear in many books, so he doesn’t have a higher score. For goodness, we’ll give him a 72/100. Xenophilius is a good person, but he did call the Death Eaters to take Harry away. Luna’s importance rating is an 81/100. She appears in more books and scenes than Xenophilius. For goodness, a 95/100 seems fair. Luna is a very good person who is honest and pure. It’s not 100 because her honestly might not be a great thing all the time.

·     For the final part of the episode, let’s zero in on these characters and answer a question central about their character. 

·     How did Luna’s childhood influence who she was? It all comes down to the fact that Luna was raised by her father, Xenophilius. They share many traits. They dress the same, say the same things, and have similar habits. Although her personality might have been formed before she went to Hogwarts, her exposure to the outside world is what influenced her to be the way she is.

·     Was Xenophilius right to call the Death Eaters on Harry? No. That’s the simple answer. However, his credit isn’t destroyed because it was Luna’s safety that was in the balance. Xenophilius had to make a gut decision and chose Luna over Harry. Not a bad way to go, but the train of thought wasn’t thought out very well. If Harry died and all good was killed, would Luna and Xenophilius have been spared? No. Xenophilius should have been honest and told Harry to look out for Luna if he could.

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Transcript

VO:
Welcome to The Potter Discussion.

Oscar:
Welcome back to the Potter discussion, discussing Harry Potter fantastic beast in the Wizarding and World fandom. I'm your host Oscar, and this is Epic a Soda 157. Thank you all for joining me today on this lovely fine day. The sky is blue, it is freezing outside and winter is coming, as they say. I'm definitely looking forward to that because winter is my favorite season. I feel like I haven't met a lot of people where they share that. I don't know. Summer is always the popular one. They have all the friends. It's so hot and lovely and nice. But I've always liked winter. Cold has been my place for a long time, so I am pleased that November is coming to a close relatively soon and December is right around the corner. So very excited for that. And we have a very exciting episode today, a breakdown. I love these breakdowns. I hope you love them too. These are one of my favorite episodes to record and this idea was sent to me by a listener. So Millie, thank you for this idea. I really caught on the moment I read your email and I knew that this would definitely be a wonderful episode to make. So again, thank you very much, Melee, for emailing me this idea. So today, as the title suggests, we are doing a breakdown of the love goods. A rather interesting one, I might add, as they are interesting people. So this should be interesting. Before we get into this episode, however, I will remind you that if you want your idea featured on the show, you can send it to me by email. My email is deeppodterdiscusion@gmail.com. That is deeppodterscusion@gmail.com. Or you can send me a DM. My DM on Instagram is at the Pod discussion, that is at the discussion. And of course, there's the Google form and the Speak pipe. I feel like I haven't said that in a while in the show notes if you want to send a voice submission or a text based submission. So thank you for all of you who do that. But let's get into today's episode. To kick off today's episode. I think it's important to lay a solid foundation as it is with all of our episodes, because if we can't understand the base of what we're really getting at here, it's going to be pretty difficult to get into the nitty gritty and the deep stuff later in this episode, which I promise you we will. So I think one of the major things about this episode I think might be confusing and perhaps a little different than past episodes, is we are going to be looking at both of the love goods because they both it's like kind of a package deal. They really are very much similar and I think they have similar effects on the story. And working together, I think, is where we see them the most in their kind of odd, I guess you could say, moments that really kind of show us who they are. So including Xenophilius in this review as well as Luna I think is going to be definitely valuable to understand more about them and also know why we are saying things we are. Because really knowing both these characters inside out is going to help us not only understand the other, but understand them as a whole, not just as individuals. So that is why we are doing both of these characters. So let's get into the actual breakdown of it all. So who are the lovegoods? Well, Xenophilius and Luna Lovegood are the two people we are going to be breaking down in this episode. We meet them, we first meet Luna in the Order of the Phoenix and we kind of meet Luna by proxy of Jinny who is definitely friendly with Luna and they are kind of on the train together and Luna is a person who was a little unsettling at first. Neville was kind of shying away and but she didn't really know how to react because her personality is really one that you can't take for face value because you can't really tell if she's joking, if she's completely serious, if she is brutally honest. There's just so many things that she could be that it's difficult to really decide what she is. So that's why it was kind of an interesting introduction and especially because she was wearing those rune glasses and was reading a magazine. The quibbler nonetheless upside down. The sequence of events of meeting Luna was definitely a touch strange and that is I think a good introduction to her character because it shows us pretty much the core elements of her personality. The Quibbler is her father which I think is kind of a nod to him not really introducing him fully but we see her talking about Gnargles and like the buzzing in your ears and like the eyes and like the confusion and then like reading it upside down and all these different things. So we kind of get a glimpse into what her thought process is, what she thinks of people and really how she reacts to new things which I think is important because we are also reacting to her in the moment. So we see her and she sees us and that is a crucial moment to understand, really. First impressions of what is up with Luna and Xenophilius I think was a rather similar situation although Harry was more used to the Love goods and Xenophilize I think is definitely different than Luna. They meet first in the Destly Hollows at Bill and slur's wedding. That is the first time that they meet and they do only meet again later when Harry is kind of looking into the Deathly Hollows and Horcruxes and also the Invisibility Cloak and really understand more about that. So we don't really have a lot on Xenophilius although it is good stuff the small amount of material that we do. So I think the first impression of Felies like I was talking about is slightly different because we know more about Luna and kind of more about him. So we know more about the love goods in general. And I think Harry can understand more about what's happening with him because he knows what to expect. He knows that it's going to be kind of odd, a little disjointed and he's going to just say hi and just kind of remove himself and move on because that's the way you do it with the love goods. That's how you do it. So I think he was definitely prepared. He knew his lines, he knew what he was doing and he went in there and he introduced himself and it was not what he expected. Of course it was not. They're talking and kind of walking around and then Zenofinis goes, we support you, we write and positive things, the quiver. Good luck, see you. And then Harry sees the Jesse hollows mark hanging on his chest, which is how we go back to his house and then they kind of depart. Luna says, you know, in a moment of brutal Luna honesty, she goes, Harry doesn't want to talk to us right now, he's just too afraid to say something and they depart. So that is our first experience with Xenophilius. So let's use this information to understand more about our characters and have a better grasp on what it means to be a love good. So with that foundation in mind, let's move on. We understand who they are, we understand really what the heck is going on. So where do they fit into the story? That is the natural next step. What role do they play in this whole mess and is it a big one? That is another important detail here because if we see them a lot as we do, I would definitely consider Luna a main character in the later books. If we see them as much as they, as they appear and they don't seem like main characters, does their role really matter? So that is the question we're going to be answering. And I think the immediate on the surface answer to do they have a big role in the story? Is yes. That is the latter part of this talking point, however. So let's first get into what role do they play and where do they fit into the story? So this is an interesting one because I don't think there is a definitive role. I don't think there is a position that is filled by Luna. I think from our perspective, I think there is, it is the odd character, it is the odd one out, the person who doesn't really have a circle, who finds their home with the DA first and then I mean really later too, as they continue to rebel at Hogwarts. So from our perspective, that is her general place in the story, Lunaim. And that doesn't really change. Like I said, she is in the DA in the beginning and in the end and it is attempted to be continued. And I think it is to some degree they are rebelling, they are fighting back. And Luna is thrilled to be a part of it because that is her that's her group. She finally found her place, you know. Felius I think it's harder to assign him a role. I think he sits in a similar position to Luna although, say from the DA stuff because of course he's not part of the DA. But I think he's kind of the person who doesn't really have a place and really has to make his own, which is good, I think. And he absolutely does. He has his own newspaper, magazine rather, and he does his own stuff. He supports Harry and he's a good guy. But unfortunately that's exactly why he cannot continue doing such things as publishing Harry Potter positive articles because that's when the Death Eaters kind of descend and take away Luna which is then why he calls Harry to his house or why he keeps Harry there and she tries to call the deaths and all that kind of stuff. So that's a later talking point. But that's kind of where they are. That's kind of the role they play. They are the outsiders who are looking to become insiders and do to some extent I think it is definitely different between the two because I think Xenonophilist becomes an insider in the Death Eater circle and Aluna becomes an insider in the DA circle. So it is unfortunate for his affiliates that he has to get caught up in all that kind of stuff. But at the same time, I think he had to. He was forced to because it was Luna's life that depend on it. So that does make sense. So now, moving on to the more broad question do they have a big role in the story? Is it just a small one off? They do this and then they're done it's. A one, two, three, that's it. Goodbye. Just background this point. Is that what their role is or is it huge? Magnitude everything that ever happens in the story is done by them. They have all the power, they have all the responsibility and they come out like a night and shining armor at the very end of the story. Well, I think we can pretty much rule out both of those possibilities. They are not at either end of the scale, which is important. I don't think any character should be that horrible. I don't think any character should be that good because it doesn't make for a good person. I think having a I mean, there should really only be one of each. I think if it's any more than that, it just defeats the entire point of the story. For example, Voldemort, I think voldemort is the absolute bottom scumbag, nothing doing, just like horrible person and he has a big role so it is complete opposites of the scale. And then we have, I don't know anyone else like Dumbledore for example. I think Dumbledore had a huge role, probably one of the biggest and he is much closer to the other end of the scale than Voldemort. He is a very good person. However, he is someone that I would not put at the very top, although the chillin might say otherwise. I think Dumbledore may be one or two degrees away because he was close to being like Voldemort and going with Grindelwald, but he pulled out. So he is absolutely a very good person. He's not 100% good but he's much better than Baldemort. So that kind of scale is what I'm looking at here. Really goodness of character and importance. I mean, frankly in a love good style. We're going to be ranking these two people in their places of the story. So let's start with, let's start with Xenophilis. So Xenophilius is definitely a middle ground because he is on the good side but he has to do bad things and he's not a terribly important character but he's not just litter in the gutter. This is Luna's style for sure. So where does he stand? So I think on a scale of one to, I don't know, let's go one to 100 so we can be really, really specific here. So in terms of importance, I'm going to put a match, a 57. A 57 out of 100 being the most important and zero being the least important because I would have put him higher if he appeared more books but he didn't. So he does not have that huge role that other characters that appears in every other book too. For example, actually, Jenny is not one of those characters, but Neville, that's a good example. And Harry's friends and the teachers, they are definitely along the more important lines because they appear in far more instances, scenes, interactions like that but does not. So he is not a horribly important person in the earlier books, which is why he doesn't have a higher score. If he did interact with Harry and Destroy as a whole like he did in the 7th book later, or I say earlier in the story, I think it would absolutely be right up there with McGonigal and Footwick and all and Snipe and all the people who we have seen since the beginning of the story. So 57, this is rating for importance in the story. Now let's put in for goodness, for overall goodness, one to 100. How good is he? 100 being the most good, zero being the least. Let's see, I think I'm going to put him at a 72. A 72, that is I think a fair rating and I'm really eyeballing it here because the one thing that he does have to do, the one thing that his task is to show Harry the Deathly Hollows. He does. Then he calls the Death Eaters and almost gets hairy arrested. So I think we probably shouldn't put them any higher than a 72 because I think he is a good person and I think everyone in this story starts out at 100 and it is every, you know, not great thing that bring them down a little bit. So I'd say he was definitely brought down a solid 30 points. A solid 35 points by calling the Death theaters. I mean, almost a third of his entire credit just gone. I think it should be more, but let's cut him some slack because he had to. So I would definitely take off at least 60 if he was acting on his own will. I'd say just about 60 or 70 points. He'd probably be out of 20 or 30 if he was calling the Death theaters for his own gain. But he was calling us for the gain of Luna and yes, for himself, but his gain was knowing that Luna was safe and protecting Luna. So that is a justified thing to do. However, it was definitely not the right thing to do. So he does get some points off, but only about half negative credit. So he's had a 70 and then, hey, two points for showing in the Deathly Hollows. I think that's important. And that animation story was cool. So two points for him. You know what, no ten points. So he's at an 80 now. And for the Derivable Plumb Concoction, that's definitely a minus eight. So there we go. Now is at a solid 72. Good for him. So there we go. Those are his ratings, 57 and 72. And I think that is not bad. I think that is a good solid score for him and that makes sense. So let's move on to Luna. I think now that we have a hanging this, we can probably rank Luna quicker. So let's see. Let's do importance of the story. Definitely a lot higher than Xenophilius, I'm going to say, because she does appear in three out of the seven books instead of just one and in far more scenes. Plus she has a house with a DA and festival. She gets to London pretty quick. I'm going to give Luna an 81 for importance. That is her rank, 81 out of 100. I think that's fair because she definitely appears in a lot more books than seen affiliates. But not only three, but those are three important stories. So if she appeared in the Chamber of Secrets, the Prisoner Masked Band, and I mean even The Source for Stone, maybe not, but because it is a much more life for that situation later in story, definitely higher. Give her a nice solid 81 for her greater importance. Now for goodness, zero to 100. Let's see. I think I'm going to give her a 95. There it is, a 95. I think that is it. That's a good grade because I think she is a very good person. I think it may not seem like she is that much of a saint because of the things she says, but it is honest, it's brutally honest. Which is why it's not a hundred. Because, I mean, of course, very little people, very little characters are 100, but I think her honesty is what ranks are so high. But the fact that it's so brutal is why it's not quite a hundred. So 95, I think, is fair. She definitely, I mean, she's the kind of person to tell you if you have food on your face or in your shirt or, I don't know, you forgot to tie or tie. I don't know how you could ever do that. But she would tell you something is wrong, she would tell you something is right. She would make comments and questions and do all this stuff. She does it for herself. It is pure. It is just she wants to know, she wants to tell you, she wants to help you. Like, that is a good trait to have. That is a good collection of things to be so that's why she's at 95. So let's use this information now that we've collected to get into the deep stuff, the good stuff. And I think the next one is definitely one that we all are thinking about. So let's move on to the next talking point. For these final two talking points of this episode, I think we should zero in on these two characters and answer a central question about their person that will allow us to tie this whole episode together and really get a final reading on them. So for our first talking point, let's go with Luna. So I think a good question to answer that is something that we, of course, are all thinking about, but also give even further insight to her character, maybe about her childhood. And this question is pretty much how did Luna's childhood change who she was? A very broad question that we are all wondering about. And I think this is definitely one that is going to be interesting because I think we know that her childhood had a huge impact on who she impacted. Huge impact on who she was, especially with the way her father raised her and her mother dying at such a young age. So I think this is definitely a more on the surface question, but we can definitely take it deeper because did her childhood impact her life? Yes, it impacted who she was a great deal. But let's get into the how of it all. So I think it pretty much, pretty much it all comes down to the fact that Luna was raised by Xenophilius and Xenophilius was raised by his parents and their parents before them and their parents and everything. It's all going back morphing and changing and adapting and becoming who the love goods are today and there is a million ways to really figure out how this happens. But I think what we can pretty much surmise is the way that of course kids are pretty much taking on what their parents do. So if a parent is likes art and law the kids will probably want to try art and law to some degree and it rarely do they think oh yeah, I'm going to do this for the rest of my life because they're different people. But I mean for example, if it's a family business then absolutely they'll have a higher chance of taking it on. But in the case of Luna and Zenithlius I think that it definitely is a much closer connection than just being related and that's that because they're very similar. Everything from the way they dress, from their traditions, from their sayings, from everything is definitely very similar to one another. And we saw that at the wedding. The one time we saw them together, they wore the same thing, they acted the same way, they asked similar questions, they were very similar people and that really gave us a good insight into their similarity. So I think the how part of it is definitely tied to Zenithilius and how he raised Luna. So I think the next part of this and the final part of Luna's kind of I guess, I guess you could say just like transformation from kind of a person of no personality, just like a child, someone who know who they are to herself, to someone of course who knows exactly who she was. I think the step in the middle there is going to Hogwarts because I Think I can't remember where I heard this, but maybe this is Complete propaganda, but I heard that Your Personality is Completely Floormed by the Time you're seven years old, which is pretty crazy, considering how little time you have to experience the world and how little you can do in just the first seven years of your life. I certainly did not do crazy things by the time I was seven. So I think for Luna however, this is slightly different because although her personality may have informed I think who she was and how she acted was not and that is a very important distinction to make. It is not tied together. I think those two things are not tied together. You know, personality and who she is. Different things, identity, personality, similar, not the same. So perhaps her personality was fully formed by the time she went to Hogwarts but who she was was absolutely not. And I think that's generally true for everyone even in the monkey worlds. I think children are not who they are, say like when they enter middle school or something like that. They are going into the 7th grade, year seven. And they come out of it as a slightly different person because they met different people, they had different classes and they did all these different things and then they go into the next year, they go into year eight and they come out of that on the other side as a slave in person. And it is kind of a snowball effect until you kind of form who you are. And I think that is pretty much what happened to Luna but far more spread out and I think much more in each year than other people because I think someone would form who they are earlier and as well as their identity. So they kind of have that building blocks. But I think Luna's personality was really the only thing that could really develop in her childhood. So that's what did and it took her going to Hogwarts to understand who she was and find her place, find her role which again going back to the beginning is that she has no place. She is a jack of all trade. She really knows just about a little bit about everything. So I think that is a good wrap up on Luna. I think that is a good kind of bow on top just that is who she is. And as Xenophilius I think just to kind of give him a little wrap up it's a question that I do want to answer. Just kind of give a finality to it and that is was he right to call the Death Eaters to his house when Harry and her and you were there? Was he correct to do that? Was it moral? I think that's the right word. Was it out of morality? Was it out of spite? Was it out of hate? Did he hate Harry and call the Death Eaters there just to just get him well no, I don't think so. But let's just kind of go over this question. Was he right to call the Death Eaters? So I think let's begin by kind of going over why he did of course Luna. Luna is his main motivation. The Decaders got Luna and said stop printing articles, just stop doing that and alert us if you see Harry Potter. That was pretty much what they said and unfortunately that is exactly what Xenophilius did and I think it was definitely expected that he would going into it. Now it makes total sense that he called the Death he did because what else was he going to do? He definitely really cares for Luna which is a great thing. But that is the one time the one instance when it is a not a wonderful thing is when Luna is in danger and he has to make a decision sacrifice Harry for Luna or sacrifice Luna for Harry. That is a trolley cart extreme a problem here and he chooses to pull the lever and get rid of Harry and get Luna back. Which I'm going to go ahead and say I don't think he was correct in making that decision but I don't think anyone else would have made a different decision because it was really in the heat of the moment here. His daughter was in danger, he had an immediate gut reaction. If the dead leaders come here and see Harry alive they will kill Luna. That is what he was thinking. But then he goes well if I call the Death Eaters here and say I have Harry take him, give me Luna, they'll give me Luna. Boom. Great, done deal. Sealed. Stamp the wax, snow it off. So that is what he did. He said hey Death Eaters got Harry, want to come on? And they did, they tried to get him, they couldn't. And so they took and then eventually Harry and Ronald Hermione found Luna and Malcolm Moon and they all escaped. So that was a good chance by that. But I don't think he was correct. I don't think Dinner Felix was correct to call just because I don't think they would have given Luna back. I really don't think that they would have given Luna back because why would they're? Death Eaters, the whole point is that they are evil and that they are killing the good guys and they are exterminating the bad. So what could have Xenophilia's possibly have thought? That he gives up Harry and the good side wins. So he gives up Harry, the resistance falls, the good side loses and then what, he just lives on happily ever after? Ire? No, I don't think that's how it would go. Maybe if they said, if he did get the credit for turning in Harry, maybe. But that's a big if. That is a big if. So here is what I think he should have done instead. He should have said harry, the Death Eaters want me to call you in. They do want me to stop printing articles about like in your favor. I really don't want to do that. They have luna. They took her and I don't know where she is. We've got to work together, we've got to find her again. So please, please go out and look and if you can't just don't, just whatever. That is what he should have said. And of course Harry shouldn't have gone on a scavenger and she shouldn't have put the horcruxes on hold just to find him or find Luna rather. But I think it would have been smart to keep an eye out for it because we know that they do find her. So if Xenophilia said, you know, fine, please, you know, find Luna if you see her, just so there we go. That is how I see it. At least he wasn't correct but I don't blame him. There was a better way to do it, he just didn't take it. However, it all did work out in the end. So that is I think, a good wrap up to this episode and I really enjoyed this one actually. The lovers are a really fascinating people. And I think it is very interesting to really delve into the depths of their persons wow. That was a word. Into their persons, into their characters. That's what I wanted to say. So thank you for listening again, Millie, thank you for emailing me this idea. If you want your idea here at her on the show, make sure you send me an email. My email is thepotterdiscussion@gmail.com, that is thepotterdiscussion@gmail.com. Or you can send me a DM on Instagram. My Instagram is at is a @thepotterdiscussion. And if you enjoyed this podcast, how about leaving a review? You can leave a review on Apple podcasts podcaster or spotify five stars, if you would. But if not, please tell me how I can make it. So. All right, I hope you enjoyed this episode. And as always, remember that happiness can be found even in the darkest of times if one only remembers to turn on the light. I'll see you later.

VO:
This was The Potter Discussion.