Where Can Dumbledore Go From Here?

In this episode, we discuss where Dumbledore can go from here. Enjoy!

Summary/Topics:
·     2:14 Where are we starting from? As of now, Grindelwald is on the run, and most of our main characters are together again. Credence is on the way out with Aberforth by his side. At this point, the dynamic of the fight against Grindelwald shifting. Now they’re chasing Grindelwald and have a very good reason to catch him. Dumbledore must form a set of solid relationships to carry the cause of good through the war.

·     8:17 Speaking of relationships, which characters will Dumbledore form these key relationships with? Newt is a no brainer, being a major character. Tina is less of a possibility because she hasn’t been playing a large role so far. Queenie is in a similar boat to Tina. Lally is more of a wild card. We don’t know her character as well as we know others, so including her in the film will be a risk, but a risk that I think it worth taking. 

·     13:56 Will the story move fast or slow? If there are four films, there are several routes the film could go. We’ll either move very quickly through the story to get to 1945 where the story ends, or we’ll just skip every element of the story until said end. I would be happy with either of these. However, it would be very disappointing to just a brief recap lasting only a couple minutes to get us to the later years of the story. A less likely route would be the fourth film to be picked up right where Secrets of Dumbledore ended, as the time in which the war is beginning, and ending is one of the calmest points before the stormiest storm in history and would be a very interesting point to see from the wizarding perspective. 

·     22:39 What will Dumbledore focus on in the fourth film and will Newt play a role in quest? Let’s begin with the first question. Firstly, Dumbledore is going to look for Grindelwald of course. The next thing he is going to do is gather a form of the Order of the Phoenix. If that’s what Dumbledore did in the later books, why change his strategy? He is going to find people who will support him and defend the good. 

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Transcript

VO:
Welcome to the Potter discussion.

Oscar:
Welcome back to the Potter discussion discussing Harry Potter Fantastic Beasts in the Wizarding world. Fandom I'm your host Oscar, and this is our episode 158. Thank you all for joining me today. Thank you for tuning in. I hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving HPD residence in this space, but if not, I hope you enjoyed your week nonetheless. It is of course a pleasure to be talking to you today. And we are diving into a topic that we have not been in in a very long time. That is Fantastic Beasts. It's been ten episodes since we have done anything to do with Fantastic Beasts. Episode 148 was the last one. That is way too long. We've been in the world of Harry Potter for long enough, so we should definitely change it up at least a teensy tiny bit today. And that is exactly what we're doing today. We're talking about dumbledore. And now that the surge of secrets of Dumbledore has died down, I want to go over where can he go from here? Postsecrets of Dumbledore, where can he go? Because there are a couple different routes that are, I think, feasible. Searching after Grindelwald is one, I think helping Newt is another, and maybe doing both is a third. So there are a lot of different things to be talked about in today's episode, so make sure you stick around because there is a lot of good stuff coming your way. But before we get into today's episode, I will remind you that if you have any questions, comments or topics that you want to hear on the show, make sure you send me an email. My email is the Potter discussion@gmail.com. That is the Potter discussion@gmail.com. You can also send me a DM on Instagram. My instagram is at the pod discussion. And if you enjoyed today's episode, consider leaving a review. You can leave a review on Apple podcast spotify or podcast, or five stars if you would, but if not, please tell me how I can make it. So alright, let's get into today's episode. To kick off today's episode, as we will in every episode, let's lay the foundation for really what we're talking about today. Because we really have to understand where we're starting in order to go further. So where are we now? Where are we starting from? Kind of what's the overall just place in the story and what areas are we kind of observing now? Blossoming almost, that could be one that are right for exploration, if in like, in terms of where can Dumbledore move on? So right now, as of now, the story is kind of at an interesting place because we are assuming for this episode that the Fantastic Beast series is continuing. Because of course, none of these episodes make any sense at all. If it is not because of the rather poor box office performance, we're not 100% sure that Fantastic Piece Four is coming out. We are still hoping, well, at least I am hoping, of course, because more Fantastic piece is exactly what I want, but we are going to assume that the story is continuing on from here. Now, that being said, I do think that if the story continues, it's going to take rather a different turn, because unless Fantastic Beast Four is a billion dollar performance in the box office, I doubt that we will have a fifth Fantastic Beast. I think Four is pretty much what we're looking at at this point, if any at all. So we can definitely use that in our discussion just a little bit, though, because I do want to focus more on the really, the continuation of the story as a whole. Not really relying on the continuing of the fantastities films. So just I wanted to say before we get into the deep so storywise, where are we story wise? Grindelwald has failed in his attempt to become the supreme Mugwomp of the visioning world. The chillin did bow to him, but it was revealed that that was the fake one and it was a t HEU failed moment. He threw a tantrum and jumped off the tow. The I don't know you call it, the huge building in Bhutan. He conjured a shield, a bunch of spells shot at him, jumped off the building, disappointed and he's gone. Great. Jacob's alive somehow. Newt is pretty much happy enough, tina is nowhere to be found. Bunty is great, double doors, melancholy and smart and genius and looking up into the distance, as he always is. Kreens is on his way out and Arc is pretty much talking to the sun he didn't know he had. So it's a bit chaotic. It's a bit of a strange situation, as you can probably tell. But there's a lot to unpack here, and I think a lot of it has to do with Dumbledore, which is why we're doing this episode, because there's so much to be talked about and there's so much to be had, if you know what I'm saying. So what I think is going to be an important element of this is definitely revolving on a couple of main characters that we will get into later. And that is kind of in Newt circle and I think kind of involving aberforth and the queenie gang, kind of characters that are kind of a wild card, you know, people who we haven't really seen the true person. I think I say that for queenie because she's on the side of grindelwald and I think her motives we know her motive is to be with jacob, to have a love and to not have to be afraid of marrying. And that's a great thing to be fighting for. But I don't think the way she goes without it is quite the right way to do it. And we see her regret. She absolutely is fighting for her cause, but is not authority fighting for renewal, which is an important distinction to make. So I think her character, I think, aberforce Credence to an extent, if Credence survives Newton. Tina absolutely. And, of course, grindelwald. So that is the foundation for this episode and we should keep this in mind because I don't think we're going to see any more of the kind of dynamic that we have previously as we are in a new phase of this story. We are really kind of in the boss battle, if you will, because now that Grindelwald is on the loose, he really is in tantrum mode and he is fighting for the top. I think now that 1945 is hurtling ever closer and certain leaders in Europe are coming to power, I think we might see very different story. And that's one that I am excited for because there are some things that I think we could see and things that I think that could happen. For example, alliances that could be made between muggle leaders and Grindelwald that would make the story so much more interesting and so much more nailbiting. Because the magical and muggle world intertwined is exactly what we don't want to see, as that typically does not end well, especially for what Grindelwald's vision is to basically support the muggles into a lower position. I think that's really where he's getting at. Okay, so I think this is really where we stand. Dan Maldor has to form relationships with people, he has to find Grindelwald and his overarching just goal is going to shift. So I think that is the foundation of where he's going. So let's dive a little bit deeper into this because there's a lot more to be talked about. Let's move on. One of the major things that we just talked about were the relationships that Dental has to form and that is something that I think we should dive a little bit further into because it's going to be very important later on. So, as we mentioned before, there are a couple of key people that are going to play key roles in the story and many key things are happening in this key episode. So what people are going to be important? Which characters are going to have a main role in this? And where does Dumbledore come in when it comes to making these friendships and using these relationships to further his own agenda in a good and bad way? So what characters are we talking about here? So. Of course, newt Newt absolutely huge in the story, absolutely going to continue that way. He is the main character, he's a lot to do, he's a good person and absolutely will continue to be an integral part to the story. I think Tina possibly that is a wild card at this point for sure, as she hasn't really appeared very much in the story so far. So it's not safe to assume that she is going to play a huge role in these story to continue. I think Aberforth is definitely going to play a big role as he's done with his brother. We have him introduced as a character and I don't think he's going to just fade into the background. The only possible situation I could see in which Aberforth does fade into the background somewhat is when if like Credence dies and he's just devastated, he cannot go on. That's the only reason I could see Aberforth just kind of fading, but I don't think he's going to react that way. Of course he's going to be devastated, but he knows that he has to move on and that the world needs him to some degree, so he is going to move on from that. So tina newt? Tina maybe. Aberforth. I think Queenie is going to play a part now that she is separated from Grindelwald. I think Denver Door is definitely going to talk to Queenie a lot about strategy, about how he acts, about where he's going, about his followers, about kind of a bunch of different things, kind of the dynamic of the world that Grindelwald made. So that's when Queenie is going to be pretty big. I was trying to decide about Lally because she could definitely have a this is definitely a two sided coin kind of situation because Lally is a new character and we don't really know her yet. Of course we kind of understand her motives and we understand her character a little bit, but we don't know her yet. So I think the filmmakers definitely have to make a decision whether to continue her involvement with the story. I am hoping that they do, because I think she's An Interesting character who has a very interesting place in the story. And I think her character, the read that I got from her watching the film for the first time really was she is working very closely with Dumbledore. And she is definitely the kind of person to have plans on top of plans on top of plans on top of plans, working with Dumbledore, having the secrecy kind of style with this whole story. So if her character does continue, her and Dumbledore are going to be working very closely together and I think that is not a thing to be ignored because this kind of dynamic is definitely one that is going to play a huge part in the story. So that is the main kind of group. And of course, I mean, we all know Grindelwald. I think that's definitely coming into the discussion later. So we won't quite go over his character a ton just yet, but I think that is what we can safely assume of force, besides Tina, that we are going to be seeing those characters at least a little bit. Because of course, they won't just kick Lewis at the side of the road and leave her there, because we have to have some kind of send off. And this is the one thing that I find a little bit annoying sometimes about films, is that they move on to the next film and characters are just gone. Like thanos just had a snap and they're just dead. They're gone, they're evaporated. We don't even have a mention of them. We don't even see their character we don't like. That's the kind of thing I just hate that, you know, because I think a character shouldn't be ignored because every character plays a part in the story, whether that's super, super tiny or super, super large. I mean, you could be building a huge stone wall and the littlest pebble could knock the whole thing down. So getting rid of a tiny character really is not the way to go. And of course, Lally is not a tiny character by any means. So kind of getting her out of the story is not the way to go. And I think the filmmakers know that, which is why I am confident in saying that she will be part of the next potential film. So those are some of the relationships that Dumbledore should form and really the ones that I think he will form. But there are some different things that we will talk about in this episode. So let's move on. This next topic is the only one, I promise, that will be different and will rely on the decision of four or five or just three fantastic beast movies. Because now we're talking about the pace of the story. I think this will definitely decide some of the plot points that we will see in terms of what Dumbledore is going to do. So will the story move fast or slow? That is what I want to go into next because that is definitely, like I just said, is definitely going to impact some of the major plot points that we're going to see. So let's just make a couple of different routes here because of course, many forks in the road up ahead. If it's just three films, this discussion means nothing. If it is four films, I think it is going to move pretty quickly. Either they're not going to go up to 1945, which is probably one of their worst decisions yet, or they're going to, I think, do what they have to, and that is to chunk it along, go year by year. Kind of power through the story up to 1945, and then take that slow, or just straight up skip the whole thing and go enjoy 1945. That is definitely something that I could absolutely accept. And of course, the very unlikely billion dollar, box office dependent fifth film. If there is a fifth film, then I think we will go much lower through the story. We will see every story beat along the way and we will have a good amount of time to absorb really what we are seeing. So a lot of different things that we could be discussing here, I think. Let's focus more on the four film idea because that is what is more likely. But we will of course go in a little bit into the five film. But there is a little bit of room that kind of carries over between these two. So we don't have to have completed different discussions based on these. So four films, if you have four films in the evenings to be series, if that is it and that is the entirety of it, I think it'll move very quickly. And that either means that we are going to be moving through the years like Lightning McQueen or we're going to skip a lot of the story and I would be happy with one or the other. I think what I would not be happy with is kind of a quick montage because montages to COVID years and years are things that I despise. The only montage that I will accept is if they are like, oh my gosh, I saw this one. It was a TV show that was like about it was in the 18 hundreds and it was so good. They were like building like a train station or something. And those are the only montages that I like where it shows the blueprint and then they roll it out and then they are like, yeah, let's do it. And then it's like years kind of flashing by and then we see the progression, the sun's going up up. We see like the calm, calm boom roof like shackle shine. It all kind of come together like the plans. That's the only monetize that I actually enjoy because it means something and we can't just have a conversation between the main builder and the architect. Just like, yeah, okay, this shackle. Oh, no, okay, yeah, that is boring as a blast and it's screwed. So I think if we see a montage that's like 1930, 519, 30, 619, 30, 719, 38, like that is just going to be the worst thing because it is basically tantalizing us with the story. And I do not want to be tantalized with the story. I want to get the good stuff and the important bits we can get introduced to later or just don't include any important bits at all. Simple as that. So if it is a minute long going through, recapping everything up until like 1943 or four when the story picks up and we can have a full story beat by story beat breakdown and really be in the moment, I'll be very disappointed. The one montage style thing I will accept is if we spend five or six minutes in each year up until whenever the story picks back up at a normal pace. So that's really like a sod like 20 minutes of the film, like kind of going over where we have been and then also kind of showing important things because there is a big gap that I think that could be left here if we don't get the correct recap or any recap. But I think they are good at recaps, which is why I think I'm not worried. But there is a direction, like I just said, that we could go, and that is going to be horrible. But if it is a newspaper style recap, where they're showing, like, where is critical, where is critical, where is critical, and then it's like the Statue Liberty, we go into it and read the story. Like boom. Story. Like, that montage is good, that kind of recap. So I either want it to be a myth or 20 minutes, but if it's like four minutes, like, no way. So that is one path. I could see the story taken. If there's four films, if there are four films and we don't want any kind of preamble, I guess you could say, with no montages, with no recaps, with no nothing in between, we just jump straight into the story. I would be fine with that because I think the story could be picked up in a manner that would not be terribly confusing for us because at that point, we kind of understand where the story is going. And unless they're thinking of this huge, just like, huge moment to include when Grindelwald first disappears, I think we should start to where we end it. And that also brings up the point of do we even jump ahead? Do we even do that? Or do we spend most of our time in the point where we left off? I think that could be potentially where we're going as well. Because if we kind of start off right where we ended, if Grindelwald disappears, you know, Credence is lying down and then the story ends pretty much there. They got married, Dumbledore walks off. If the story opens up and Dumbledore turns the corner on that snowy New York evening, I wouldn't be that disappointed because that right there is the most calm before the stormiest. Storm. I think it is pretty much in history. I'm trying to think here, that stretch of time, even the muggle world is just about the only piece that will exist for the next, I mean, 15 years. And that if that is also reflected in the wizarding world. This is an integral moment that has to be discovered and has to be explored. So going through this story beat by beat and really understanding where we are going from a filmmaker point of view in the fourth film to begin with is not something I would turn my nose up at. So those are a couple different ways we could go here. And I think that's for the four film, strategy is definitely much more complicated to imagine, really, where we're going because there's a different dynamic for kind of how the story could evolve. But the five film, I don't really have to talk about the five film that much. It's pretty simple. We would just go through pretty slowly, just a pretty normal pace that we've been going through so far from film of four and five because that is it. That was the plan for the series. So they obviously have going the pace that would take it from beginning to end and of course we don't even know that the end was 1945, but even if it wasn't, this pace is enough to take us that far. So this is definitely something that I could talk for hours about. But there are some more things to be discovered. So let's move on. To finish out today's episode, I have kind of a twoparter for you. So we've talked a little bit about where he is going but now let's get specific, let's make our predictions. Let's get this all locked in so I can clip it later, play it when the fourth film comes out, hopefully and I'll show you how smart I really am. So two parts are going to go into this because we do have some time here. So I am going to combine our final two talking points here and those talking points are so will Dumbledore, will his quest be related to Newt and what will he focus on first? Those are the two things that we are going to lock down to tie the bow, to put the cherry on top because it is a very interesting thing and of course this is the deciding factor on the story at this point. Dumbledore's quest is really where we have to see at least a little bit because if we think about it, what Dumbledore has done is essentially where the story has gone because this is basically the story between Grindelwald and Dumbledore and all of that is the main points of the story. I think Newt is one of the more main characters out of the main group. So a little bit confusing. But let's start with that second part because I think without that we can't really decide the first. So what will Dumbledore focus on first? Where is he going to focus his efforts and what is going to come out of that? What is he going to hope for? Well, let's just get the object out of the way. He is going to be looking for growing evolved. I think that is a no brainer. Dumb, dumb what the heck? Cartoon honking sound kind of thing. So that is a very obvious one that I don't think we need to get into because I mean daudor Grindelwald disappears, no one knows where he went. It is the easier the natural thing is to look for him. So that is of course what Dumb door is going to be doing. But the other thing that I think is less of scary and more of a prediction is he is going to be gathering support and he is going to be finding wizards and witches and magical people everywhere that are going to support him. Because at this point Dumbledore realizes the magical war that is coming and I think even Grindelwald does. Grindelwald says, I was never your enemy. This whole thing could have been avoided. I mean, that's pretty much like a declaration of we are now adversaries. You know, stick them up, let's do this. So I think we're definitely entering the war times of the wizarding world which corresponds of course with the Muggle war that is happening at the moment. So I think that is essentially what is going to happen. But more specifically in terms of what Dumbledore is doing I think it is going to be an Order of the Phoenix situation because of course we had the First Order of the Phoenix of what is called the First Wizarding War. But that's kind of incorrect. That was not, that wasn't the First Wizarding War and of course I'm sure there have been dozens of Wizarding Wars before this and I think that is definitely going to be something that we kind of gloss over because of course there have been so many wars of Muggles. I mean we're thinking back to ancient Egypt and China and India and just Vikings and I mean, even back to the more recent countries there have been at least two or three wars that have affected the world and that is the same thing for wizards. Of course there have been three major ones that we know about Grindelwald world War I and World War II. But I think it is definitely more of a gathering support that wizards kind of have a constant of war that Muggles it. Because of course Muggle warfare evolves I mean much much farther and much more widely than magical warfare because magical war is just like we talked about in the way I would like to see whether we're shaking up Harry Potter. It is a shoot spells as fast as you can kind of kind of situation. So that kind of thing means that it doesn't evolve very much and it is pretty constant. So the medium of what would be required and what would be expected and what Dumbler would have done to win the war is the same. So why wouldn't he have gathered the Order of the Phoenix the first time in the 40s? Why would that not be the first time that he gathers that kind of group? Because, of course, they call it the first order of the Phoenix that was fighting Voldemort the first time. But that had people who were alive. That's Moody saying, hey, Harry, this is the first order. And maybe I would guess, that Moody was born either at the end of the war, either like when it was just ending or after it was completely finished. And people like Sirius and Molly and Arthur, they were born around the time of the war was being finished. Of course they're not old people yet, they are not young, but they are not the grannies and grandpa's of the wizarding world. Yet of course, Dumbledore is kind of old at that point, but that's because he was born in like the he was he no way. He was born in the 17th because he went to Hogwarts in the Gosh. Yes, he went to Hogwarts in the 1800, which is kind of wild to think about that he is that old. But it is definitely a strange thing to think how old he is. So I think that is just a general where he's going. I think that's also a specific way. So there we have it. That is the first part of really what we're talking about. And now to kind of finish it out. Is he going to be working with Newt? Of course he is. Let's just say that one together. Newt is not going away anytime soon. With a similar kind of allowing situation. Newt cannot be put to the UAE. He's going to be front and center. He is going to be dueling, he's going to be Bam bamboo and he's going to be pop pop and he's going to be shooting those spells and fighting off those Grinnell supporters and being a good person to the world and just showing his loyalty to Devil's R into good and really making the world a better place. Meanwhile, he is going to be, I think eventually get married. Married? I don't know. I'm sure there's someone out there. Please tell me because I would love to know that actually. I'm sure he's too lazy to look it up. But yes, absolutely. Nude is going to have a huge role in the D stories as he always does. He's a wonderful person, I think I would hate to see go and he's absolutely not going to go anytime soon. So thank you Newt for being such an amazing person and for continuing the story. So absolutely Dumbledore is going to bring you into the clutches of his plans, of course, working very closely with Lally to formulate these intricate, intricate plans. So there we have it. That's the whole thing. That's the episode. That is it. We're wrapping it up now. I want to thank you all so much for tuning in today. I really hope you enjoyed this discussion. Of course, I absolutely love talking about these things and the taxpayer is really one of my favorite things to talk about, especially when it is when there's new stuff coming out. It is wonderful. So I hope you enjoyed this just as much or even more than I did. That would just be wonderful. Like I said in the beginning of this episode, if you enjoyed the show, make sure you leave a review on Apple podcast spotify or podcaster. Five stars if you would. But if not, please tell me how I can make it so. And of course with any questions, comments or topics you want to hear on the show, you can send me an email. My email is. Thepotteriscusion@gmail.com that is thepotterdiscusion@gmail.com you can also send me a DM on instagram. My instagram is at thepotter discussion. That is at the Potter discussion. And as always, remember that happiness can be found even in the darkest of times if one only remembers to turn on the light. I will see you later.

VO:
This was The Potter Discussion.