James Potter and Lily Evans hate each other while Umbridge takes over Hogwarts | Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (Tea Leaves S5 E7+8)

In this episode, we discuss episodes seven and eight of Tea Leaves, our version of the Harry Potter TV show. We go back in time and watch the inception of James and Lily's relationship, and what role Snape plays in driving them together. Episode eight sees Dumbledore's Army disbanded and Umbridge in control of Hogwarts. Enjoy!

Topics/Summary:

·      1:57 We begin with …. Harry? No, it’s James Potter. This is an episode back in time. James is around his fifth year of Hogwarts, enjoying the last of the summer before returning to school. He eats breakfast with his parents then goes out into the picturesque English village to walk the forest with Sirius.

·      13:53 Off to Hogwarts. James is a very popular student, and we see him switch into Hogwarts mode as he greets all his fans on the Hogwarts Express. James isn’t totally kind however, and it becomes extremely obvious.

·      35:46 Back to Harry for episode eight. Classes are going well for him. Firenze has replaced Trelawny as divination professor. The DA is learning how to cast a patronus, and Umbridge learns about their secret meetings. She decides to act.

·      50:12 Umbridge runs Hogwarts with a sharp eye. Snape and Harry continue their occlumency lessons, but Malfoy interrupts and calls Snape away. Harry takes that opportunity to learn something more about Snape, but he comes away with a different image of his father. 

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Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:17

I'm Host Fox here and this is episode 350. Thank you everybody for joining me today on this lovely day. I am so, so glad to be recording with you all today. We are continuing our Tea Leaves series with season five, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, episodes seven and eight. This is, of course, episode 350. That's super cool. Nice round number. So if you've been here since episode one, uh you've listened to me say that 350 times, that intro. So thank you. Thank you so much for sticking with me. Uh and if this is your very first episode, I'll let you know. First of all, welcome. So glad to see you here. Uh, for those who don't know, this is Tea Leaves, uh, our version of the Harry Potter TV show. We are going through each and every episode, scene by scene, sometimes line by line. Uh we have done four complete seasons. So if you've not heard any of those, I would highly recommend going back and listening to them. And we are in the midst of season five, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. Uh, we are on episodes seven and eight, like I've mentioned this week. And we have two very, very cool episodes coming up. Uh uh always fun to explore the wizarding world, I guess I'll put it that way. So definitely stick around if you want to hear uh the very cool episodes that we have coming up for you in just a moment. If anything pops into your head while you're listening, questions, comments, topics, anything at all, uh it's not too late to get your ideas in for season five. If you have something you really want to hear at the very end of the season, don't be afraid to write in the potter discussion at gmail.com. That is the potter discussion at gmail.com. All your wearies, all your woes, I am uh very, very happy to hear them there. Uh all right, that is everything I want to mention. So without further ado, let's get into today's episode.

We begin with …. Harry?

SPEAKER_00 1:58

So we are beginning episode seven with an early morning. Someone is getting ready, we are tracking them as they kind of they open their blinds and they find their glasses and they, you know, get get ready, they maybe brush their teeth, and we don't see their face. That's very important. We don't see their face. All we see are little parts of them, like a hand, the back of, you know, uh a black-haired, tousled head, you know. The idea here is we are we we think it's Harry, because that's you know, everything is suggesting that, but as we start to kind of gl go a little deeper, it's becoming obvious that maybe is not him. And what's tipping us off is he's not at Hogwarts, this this person, who is clearly uh a similar age to Harry, but still you haven't seen his face, and then uh I'm thinking we see his face first, maybe he, you know, splashes water over his face and he dries it off, and then as he takes the towel away, we see that it is James Potter, Harry's father. So this episode is going to be a bit of a look back. I was thinking about a few things here with this episode. The first one being uh the fact that uh I was thinking about some of the showwriters, uh, David Heyman was talking about uh um this show being Harry Potter Plus was kind of uh the language they used there. So that got me thinking a little bit here. Um Harry Potter Plus, what could that mean? You know, we're kind of going deeper into the story. All right. Uh and then I was also thinking about last episode. I was so, so excited to uh uh dive into Snape's memories, and I thought that was such a cool moment, and we learned so much just in that little snippet. So I thought, well, we gotta get a whole episode out of this. And I was looking at um the how much story we have left, and we definitely have space for a uh an episode like this. So this is going to be a bit of a flashback episode. I hope you are ready. So James Potter is at home before the school year begins at Hogwarts. He's uh around fifth year, you know, it's not that important that it's specified, but it's it's not first year, it's not seventh year, you know, somewhere in the middle. He's getting ready, and I'm what I really also want to see is his parents. I I want to see Harry's uh Harry's grandparents. I think that's a uh that would be a really cool detail for us to get because I mean it's kind of a plot hole. Like I feel like Harry's grandparents would kind of, you know, be there at some point, but I guess not. I mean, uh Dumbledore gave him to the jerseys because they were his only family, his only living family. I mean, I guess. I don't know. Where where'd everyone else go? Who knows? So that's gonna be cool to see James' parents. Um, and maybe Sirius is over, like something like that. Like, I just want to have, I want to see James in his in his home, you know. I want to see him growing up. Maybe it's in Godrick's Hollow. Could very well be in Godrick's Hollow. I think that'd be a super cool detail. So maybe Siri I didn't even write this in, but maybe Sirius is there, you know. Maybe we see James, he's uh he he goes down for breakfast and he has a cup of tea, and then maybe he walks around. I I also what I'm also really looking forward to seeing here is the beautiful village of Godricks Hollow. I feel like um the only times we've seen it are uh is like when it's pitch black and something very terrible is happening. Like that's the only times we see it. Granted, I did enjoy when Harry and Marha and Hermione went there to uh visit with Hilda Bagshot. That was, you know, it was pretty at night in in uh Christmas. But a nice, you know, English summer morning, you know, in a in a picturesque village, I think that would be such a wonderful way of uh starting this episode. And I I guess I wanted to explore. Like maybe he he walks down somewhere and maybe he meets Sirius there. That that could very well be it. So Sirius isn't as a house yet. He walks so he wakes up, he has breakfast, he has a cup of tea in the garden with his parents, and then he walks down, maybe to some stream, maybe to some forest where he meets Sirius, uh, and they and they uh you know hug or they or they embrace somehow, and it's very clear that they are very good friends. And the key here is I don't necessarily want um the kind of the revelation for us of who these people are to be given. I don't know. Is that a good way of putting it? I suppose what I'm saying is I want to slowly realize who these characters on the screen we're seeing are, and I want to realize it through their actions. Like James, I think. Um James is maybe a different, like a kind of a clearer example, because you know, it should be very clear at the beginning of the episode that we think it's Harry and then it's not, you know, so who else could it be? I mean, come on, it's gotta be James. So that might not be such a such a mystery. But like with Sirius, for example, um, I think we should see, you know, his his you know, curly hair is and then be kind of you know, be kind of no. Like, I don't wanna have like a stupid, excuse my language, but a stupid film uh thing where James goes up and like uh almost like a you know explaining to someone else, like by proxy, explaining to us, you know, like that whole thing with like uh he goes up and says, Oh, serious, how are you? Like that seems uh, you know, they're such good friends, they wouldn't have to say each other's names. They just walk up and go off, you know. So that should kind of be how it feels. I guess what I'm getting at is it shouldn't feel like a TV show at this point. It should just feel like life, you know. Uh because I think that's how characters come to life, is when we watch them and we or we read about them or we experience them somehow, and it's not like we are reading something or watching something or experiencing something. It's like we are living with them, and I think this is the best way to do that. We aren't trying to integrate them into the story, we are just simply living in their lives, in their story, and that's how I think we get the best effect, and how we learn the most about these characters, because this episode is not gonna be a sugar-coated, you know, Hogwarts is perfect episode. That's not the point of this. We are trying to learn more about these people, and we've never met them before. Uh, of course, we've we've met Sirius, but not this Sirius. We've met Amira James, we've met Arissa James, but we've met this James, you know. That's that's kind of what we're what we're seeing here. We're getting we're finally kind of pulling back the curtain at who these people are, and that's what this episode is all about. So James walks down and meets Sirius, and maybe they go off, and you know, nothing's happening. Like, I I want to stress that, and I think the environment is definitely part of this this vibe that's that's kind of forming around them. That it's a very relaxed, very happy, it's very slow, you know, it's slow living. And again, I think it's that's part of this this beautiful environment that that that they are in. I think that's a very important part of it. Maybe it's it starts raining and they have to run in somewhere, I don't know. But I think it should be sunny and beautiful, um, and they are just kind of wandering, you know. Maybe they they they wander to a uh a little glen and they, you know, drink from a stream, like, and just like because it's fun and they splash each other and laugh, or like, you know, something like that. Just they're just they're just walking around. They're just they're just wandering. Like that's that should be what we're seeing here. And I will say, I'll jump ahead a little bit and say, uh, James is not going to come across very well in this episode. So uh I also want to kind of set up that expectation here. And that's one of the things that I want to get at here. So just to set your um you know, mind in the right spot for the episode, James is not going to be portrayed as a hero. I think that is the important part here. Uh, it's very easy to forget that James is actually kind of a kind of a bad bad person. At least, you know, many of his attributes lend themselves towards someone who may not be viewed in the most positive of lights. That's the most political way I can put it, and that is absolutely going to be on display in this episode. So that's kind of the first part of this whole thing. And honestly, I'm I'm I'm just trying to think, I'm trying to envision this. And when I see it, when I'm when I'm like watching it in my head, I'm trying to think, is there music? Like, is there much sound? I feel like there is. I feel like there is because um the moments that we have decided that there's no music have been really intense. Have been, you know, one-on-one conversations that that change lives, you know, have been moments that, you know, where Harry is fighting for his life, when he's learning something that will change him forever. Like those those those moments that are so so dense that you just you can't look away. You can't like you are you are living in that moment. Like those are those are the moments that don't have any music because though, you know, are those characters listening to music while they're having that conversation? No. Uh the show should reflect real life, and that's how that reflects real life. But I think for this beginning montage, I'm not really thinking about that. I don't think there should, you know, maybe when he's first getting up there isn't any music, but I could totally see um, you know, as he walks out the door and kind of the sun hits him, and we begin to to see kind of these cobbled lanes and, you know, crooked houses and, you know, these trees kind of, you know, blending, blending through, you know, we start to hear, you know, something, you know, very countryside, very summer, you know, very, very, very relaxed. Um, I always think of like me, you know, like it's it's the kind of music you would hear as you are walking like down the French Riviera. Like that's that's I first of all, let me preface by saying never been there. But it's like the it's it's stereotypically, I should as I I should preface by saying, it's stereotypically that that that kind of music, just the kind of, you know, like uh, you know, just wandering, just kind of going from one place to another. Uh there's really no no goal in mind, you know. That's you know, there's a clarinet and there's like a nice little like strumming guitar. It's like it's like a bunch of old dudes sitting drinking drinking coffee in the morning, playing like playing their instruments, like something like just very chill. So I don't know. That's I don't know why I spent so much time talking about that. But I think it's it's an important moment, uh, an important aspect of this whole sequence. So that's kind of the first part of the episode, honestly. And I'm happy to spend some time here because again, I want to set up their who they are. I want to know who they are. It would be a shame if we come out of this episode thinking, wow, James is just overall awful. Like he's just he's just a terrible person. I don't want to be thinking that, because that's not the truth. This episode is about kind of clearing the air. When we have been uh interacting with James as a character for the longest time, we thought of him as just a saint. You know, he's Harry's dad, Harry misses him, and all we want to do is you know, for them to meet again, for them to reunite somehow, but it's so hard and it's impossible, and that's why so heart-wrenching. That's kind of our dynamic with him. And that's okay, that's that's a good dynamic to have. I think, especially for the first few books, I think it would be a difficult uh you know, factor in the story if James was this villain, you know, that's obviously not the case. But as the story progresses, and especially after the uh last few episodes, we've beginning to see, you know, we are we are starting to see that James maybe isn't as saint-like as we've been, you know, starting to believe. So that's kind of where we are at this point. And what I don't want to do is swing too far the other way. So I think we should be very careful with this episode about not coming away thinking, oh my gosh, James is horrible. Because that, again, that's just not the truth. But it's not not the truth. So we're gonna have to uh kind of toe this line. So all this to say that's really why I wanted this beginning part of the episode, because we are seeing him in a very pure form. There are no people to impress, there's no Quidditch team to dominate, there's no Hogwarts, there's no pressure, there's just him and his friends and the bond that they have. And I think it's natural for us to see that and think that he's a good person, and I think that's how we should be, you know. It's hard to see, you know, a young person just going out, having fun, you know, enjoying their enjoying the sun with with a friend of theirs and think, wow, that's a e that's someone who's really evil. Like, that's that's not really what we're going for here. So I'm really looking forward to seeing that. But we are not gonna stay here forever because there is still more to explore in James's world. So with that, let's move on.

Off to Hogwarts

SPEAKER_00 13:53

So now the Hogwarts season starts to brew. So he maybe has his books now, and James is starting to get his trunk together, and I think we should see some similarities between he and Harry. Perhaps it doesn't uh doesn't quite come together in a timely manner, we can say, and his uh his parents have to have to help him out a little bit there. I think that could be a charming detail. But we don't spend much time at home packing up because he's gotta get to the Hogwarts Express. So he's not with Sirius anymore. He travels by himself, but when he arrives, it should be like, you know, like like magnets, they somehow find each other, James and Sirius. Uh they and then of course when they get on the they they uh get to King's Cross, and I think it'd be cool to see they're going with like the 90s clothing, which is like, you know, that's accurate. I think it'd be cool to see like when when would this be? Like 70s, you know, something something like that. Uh I think that would be cool to see kind of King's Cross in the 70s and see all the see all the clothing, you know, wizarding clothing in the 70s. I wonder how how how it's changed. So something like that. So they they get to King's Cross and James, you know, hugs his parents goodbye and runs through the barrier, and you know, uh there he is. He's he is uh at the platform. And I think again, uh I'm looking forward to seeing maybe some slight differences. Like I I want this to be a very dynamic world. I think it'd be a shame if he goes onto the platform and it's the same. Like I feel like that's not how it should be. Yeah, he should go onto the platform and see that it's maybe different. Like, uh, and he, of course, he doesn't register this because it's been, you know, the same for him, but for us, we see that some things are slightly different. Like, there they they did say there's like a cafe now in the in in the platform, so maybe we see that. I don't know. Like uh uh, but it's like slightly different, you know, they are selling slightly different things, and maybe there's like another store open and whatever, like there's some posters about some you know wizarding events around the time, you know, something that makes it feel like it is that time. But I think the Hogwarts Express its sh itself maybe shouldn't be too different, because that seems like the kind of magical thing that might not change too much. But he gets on the train, he and Sirius, who found each other, uh, they found each other at the platform, they get on the train, and they find a compartment, and they they they look and look, and finally they found them. They found Peter and Remus and they sit down. I think this is kind of a cool moment because it's kind of like a reunion. Uh reunion of the Marauders, which is which is really cool. And uh, if you can think all the way back to season three, we also we had, you know, a marauders episode like that. So this shouldn't feel like we're meeting these people for the first time. It shouldn't feel like this is the first time that this group has sat down. No, they are very good friends and they have known each other for a few years at this point. So there's very little, you know, hi, who are you? Like, that's not kind of what we're going for here. So they sit down and the uh we we see them on the Hogwarts Express, and this is what I want to be thinking. As we see them talk and laugh and get food, I want to be thinking, wow, that's just like the trio. That's what I want to be thinking. Like, wow, they are just like them. You know, they're it's a different group with different, you know, mm more people and uh, you know, it's whatever, you know, it's different. But it's still, we should be seeing them and be thinking, wow, like that's that's just like Harry and his friends. Like, that's what I want to be thinking there. So it's a very, very surreal thing, I think, to be watching James like this. Because we always have thought of James as an adult, you know, that's how we've seen him up until this point, and we saw the memory last episode of Sid of Snape uh getting bullied by James, and it was, you know, a very unfortunate scene. But uh still we think of James as an adult, so I'm gonna see him as a kid, and I think that's also important to uh on that note, we think of Harry as a kid as well. In fifth year, like, he's not a grown adult, but he's, you know, he's a little older than than he was, so you know, he's kind of he's he's uh leaving his, you know, you know, tween early teen years and slowly reaching adulthood. So that's kind of what we see here in. But James should also be in that phase. But he's not an adult right off the bat, you know. I wanna I wanna uh see him, see him grow and see him where he is. I think that would be a much more uh relatable, you know, part of his life that we would, you know, could see and and and understand versus if he was, you know, buying a car and he was saying, oh gosh, the mortgage prices these days, like that's not what I want to be seeing him. You know, they should be talking about the Quidditch season, like that's that's a big you know detail. Uh the quiddish season and things like that, and maybe uh classes and you know, their favorite candies, like things like that. But also, we aren't gonna be spending too much time here. So it's very fleeting, it's very surface level. So I think all those factors will will kind of add up to us beginning to understand who he is, who who James is, who Sirius is, and kind of who they are as uh, you know, to in relation to each other. Uh Peter and Lupin are also part of this. Like, let's let's not forget them. So they are also uh people who we are tracking, who we are making sure we uh we see and understand. Uh, because we are this is kind of an episode to see how they grow and change together. So that is important to note. So they're on the Hogwarts Express. I think uh as they appreach approach Hogwarts, we should maybe switch compartments, maybe, because I it's time to introduce the kind of inner layer to this episode. So this is not all about James. Uh I am sorry to say, as much as he would like that, I'm sure. This episode is uh centered around James, Sirius, Lily, and Snape. So I mentioned that it was the memory that that Harry was proofy to last episode that inspired this episode, and that is kind of what we are going for in this episode. So Lily and Snape, though we haven't seen them up to this point, we will now. So we switch compartments and we see them sitting together uh in in a compartment, and this is such it should be like like I want to feel like whoa, like that's so weird. Because we didn't really see that in the uh in the memory in the films. We didn't really see them sitting together. And t to be fair, we didn't even see them in the books, you know. So uh we had we had like some memories uh later on, but this is kind of it's not a memory, you know, this is real. So that that should be a much more concrete example uh for us to kind of base our assumptions off of. So we s we see them sitting together. There are two things that I want to point out here. One is Snape, is he sullen? Is he brooding? Is his hair greasy? Like, no, he's not that person yet. Another reason I wanted to have this episode is because I want to see Snape as a regular dude. He is a d he's just a he's just a regular person, and maybe his house, you know, his household isn't isn't the happiest, so you know that adds to his character. Uh but uh he's a regular person and he has friends and enemies, and Lily is one of his greatest friends, and you know, maybe he hopes they'll be something more one day. Like he's a he's someone who has regular thoughts and regular feelings, and that's what I want to see here. It was that little taste of a memory we had last episode, and that's kind of uh coming back. Like that moment where Harry uh he deflected the curse in during their alchemy lesson, and then he goes in memory, and then when Snape rips him out, and it's that moment of calm, kind of right after where we see Snape for who he really is for the first time. Like that's the Snape that I want to be seeing here in the train compartment with Lily. And the other thing I want to point out is Lily and James, or not Lily and James, Lily and Snape are like friends, they're like clearly very close. And that should be kind of a strange thing to see, because uh we know that they uh even in this episode, spoiler alert, are not going to be getting along very well. Um and it is unfortunately Snape's fault, but as of now. Now they are still they're very, very close, and that should be another thing that we are seeing. So it should be a very strange thing. You know, it should be something that we're we're kind of thinking, like, that is that really how that goes? Like, we we see these two people and we aren't sure exactly, like uh we didn't think that they were getting along very well, we didn't think that Lily would like Snape, we didn't think that Snape was normal, like all these things are kind of colliding, and uh it should feel very bizarre, and that's kind of the goal. So as we approach Hogwarts, we now finally have a full understanding of who these people are. And I wanted to spend so long on this beginning setup because it's kind of this episode's like in two chunks, like the setup and then the you know, kind of punchline, I guess you could say. And we are fast approaching the punchline. So with that, let's move on. They're at Hogwarts, they're here, they're living the life, and I think it should be going great because they are uh James is the kid on the block. He is the coolest guy around, he is a Quidditch star, uh, and I want to see it. You know, I really want to see it. He makes waves, he's the guy who fist bumps you as you walk down the hall. You know, it should feel a little cheesy just how much he, you know, just how popular he is. Um and here's the thing, I don't want to just see it, I want to believe it. So I want to have a Quidditch game. Like, it's James Potter, you know, he's the Quidditch guy. Um, and here's an interesting note. So he is actually a beater, and that's an interesting part here because in the film he's shown as a seeker, but in truth he's a beater. So I'm trying to think here which one do we choose? I don't know. I was I was going back and forth, and honestly, I feel like a beater is a really good choice. Let me explain myself. So this is the turning point. And I think what do I mean by that? I mean f we've been seeing James th for the first half of this episode as kind of like a nice guy, you know, he enjoys the sun, he has friends, you know, he's he's he's a pure soul. But as we see him kind of shift into his Hogwarts self, and that's kind of how it should feel, you know, he shifts into this Hogwarts mode. We see that he's slightly different, and it's not a good different. It's not a good different at all. So he's very popular, and then maybe, you know, as he's walking down, he he says something mean to someone, you know? And he laughs and turns to his friends and laughs at the end of the person, they just they just kind of dissed. And then we kind of get this moment of like, oh like that wasn't so nice. Like, why'd why why'd he do that? You know, he didn't have to do that. So that should be like it's like that little moment is like that's where the coin flips, like right there. And then his popularity we begin to see is something other than, you know, it's something other than like a wholesome, like, he's just a nice guy and everyone knows him. Like that's not really what it is. So we see a Quidditch match, and it should be absolutely outstanding. I think he should be a beater because that, you know, again, it we kind of turned, you know, a seeker is much more uh, you know, as uh a nobler role, I think, but a beater is kind of a little more down and dirty. And now that we kind of are beginning to see his true colors, I think him as a beater on the Quidditch pitch would go a lot farther as to us understanding who he really is. So, any but he's crushing it. I mean, literally and figuratively, he is absolutely crushing it, and the game is spectacular. He is diving, he's weaving, the seeker should be good, everyone should be good. This just just the chemistry should be palpable. I mean, like, it's just electric. You guys see the video? So that's what we should be feeling. I mean, it's just an amazing moment. We see uh, you know, James crushing on the on the pitch, and then he makes a you know a spectacular save, and he wins the game for the team, and he, you know, holds his hands up high and he flies down to the pitch, and everyone's cheering. And he should just be on top of the world, and we should see that, and then see how it gets into his head. So we've set the scene here. Now we're getting into the real meat of the episode. So now we see James and Lily, for the first time James and Lily have an interaction, maybe they are past each other in the hall or are sitting together at the library or something like that. Like, they clearly aren't acquainted, you know, very well acquainted, but they definitely don't like each other, and that is the important part. And I think it's gonna kind of kind of rock our world a little bit to like see them and like they don't really like each other, and we're just like, what? You know? So it's gonna be a little strange, but I think it's gonna be a very cool, uh very cool part of their character arc to see that. So we see that they are um, you know, they they interact somehow, however it might be, and they clearly don't like each other. So I think Lily should think James is just kind of an idiot, you know, big headed, he's he's popular, as a wise man once said, you know, some small talent on the Quidditch pitch gave him a big head. That's what Lily should think. And Lily and Snape are still so clearly a pair. Uh they go around together, they're very good friends, and they both think that. And maybe they kind of reflect each other's ideas off each other. So it's like it's kind of like a reflecting pool, like they b are both seeing this, and therefore it is making both of their views equally, you know, stronger and stronger, kind of a positive feedback there. So that's important to see. And then James also doesn't like Lily. Like maybe he thinks, you know, she she isn't cool, like she's a nerd, like she isn't really, you know, in his circle, so she, you know, he doesn't like her. But of course, he absolutely does like her. It's kind of a front, so we should see that James still is very taken with Lily, and I think that would be we we would be remiss not to experience it that way. Because we have to keep in mind, this is this is what I was saying, it is so easy to swing the other way. You know, James is awesome, oh wait, James is aw or is awful, yo, he's terrible, you know, get this guy out of here. Like, we're not I don't want to swing that far. So what I want to get here, I guess this is kind of the overarching theme for this episode, complexity. We are getting interpersonal complexity. These relationships are really thick. I mean, there's just so much in there, and that's what we were, you know, beginning to see. And then maybe to get even more complex, maybe Lily likes James a little bit too, you know. Uh she's she's kind of uh she doesn't want to admit it, but she enjoys watching him play, and you know, she's seen him, you know, in these little moments. Like maybe when it's just James and Sirius, you know, sitting somewhere, you know, he she she kind of sees them talking and laughing, and for a second, for just a second, Lily can see that maybe there's someone in there. You know, maybe it's not just this Eric and Quiddish play, maybe there's someone in there. But she kind of looks away and shakes her head. So we're we're beginning to see this relationship develop, and uh, but but still, James and Lily are are at odds. But Snape and James are now gonna have their run-in, and this is uh going to be a a horrible scene. I mean, I I want to be kind of wincing seeing James uh, you know, say these horrible things and do these awful things to Snape. And I want to be, I I will say for next episode, remember this scene, okay? Because we are gonna come back to this next episode. Uh we will, you know, I'll explain that all later. So I think it should be the run in that they had uh at the you know when when they were all outside. The one that we saw in the film. Because we kind of uh and and this is kind of what I'm what I'm getting at here. We saw that a little bit last episode, but it was a memory. It was a memory from Snape's uh perspective. So maybe very subtle things are different. Like Snape's uh or um like James's head is a little smaller, like so you know, things like that that that Snape would remember are slightly different than James. I think that would be a very clever detail. So we saw this memory last episode when Harry went into Snape's mind. We saw that, but now we are getting this memory for real. And this is exactly how it happened. So I don't know, I don't need to explain this to you. Uh you guys understand. Uh James levitates, you know, Snape into the air and you know, you know, pulls off his his his trousers and it's very embarrassing for Snape. And Lily is there, and Snape is just getting so riled up, and and Lily at first isn't doing anything because like she feels like she can't, but then of course she sees that this is this is terrible, so she runs up and tries to fix it. But Snape is just in this horrible mood. So when Lily tries to help him, she's he's he snaps at her and and calls her a mud blood, and that should be a horrible moment, and I can just see Sna um James go like, oh no way, like making such a like a making light of the moment. So that just drives Lily crazy, and she she sees you know Snape and who's just called this horrible thing, and that's the moment when Snape and Lily kind of split. So they're split now, and now Sirius is uh uh sorry. Well Sirius is there, he's he's he's enjoying it. But Snape is now mad, so they they put him down, and this is I think they should have like maybe a little fight. Like maybe, you know, uh James, you know, puts Snape on the ground and begins to walk away with the crowd that was watching, and then Snape kind of gets up and he's shaking, and he grabs his wand out of his ropes and he casts some kind of curse, some horrible curse at James, and luckily, you know, maybe Sirius sees it, or maybe even I think like uh Remus is maybe there and he sees it, and that's kind of when he decides that it's it's been enough, you know. And he and he deflects it. And then I think James, you know, will use some kind of a spell on him, or like it he clearly overpowers him, and maybe that begins Snape's you know, love of the dark arts, and you know, his his dueling uh prowess begins then, you know, because he kind of silently you know vows to himself that he will he will avenge him, like you know, whatever whatever it is, you know. You know, you know what I'm saying. It's kind of his his villain arc where that we are we're uh assuming there. So it should just be horrible. I mean, we see we see James, and it's just awful to see that happen. So we end the episode here with I think one of my favorite parts of the episode, and this is kind of um we're stretching the story a little bit. So this is the prank. That's how we're going to end. It might seem like a light, a light audio, no, I promise you, this is this is there's there's there's something to this. We end this episode with the prank that James and Sirius played on Snape, and I th I'm not sure exactly when it is it's said to have have happened, but I feel like we can just say it happened now. Sure. Yeah, it happened now. I'm talking about what Lupin was telling Harry in in uh season three about how uh James and Sirius like told uh you know Snape was seeing Lupin go off at the full moon and was wondering what happened, so James and Sirius pranked him and said, Oh, go go in the drinking shack and find out. And of course he did, he saw Lupin, but James got cold feet and pulled him out at the last moment. That's the prank that's gonna happen. So we should see that prank. And honestly, I'm happy to kind of have boots on the ground here. We see uh Lupin go off, we see him transform, and James and Sirius are there, and they see Snape kind of go up. And then uh another important part of this, and the reason why I want to include it here, is because Lily is also there. Maybe she feels bad. Uh maybe this is like that same night or a few weeks later, she feels bad uh for Snape and she and she is still very, very hurt because of course, you know, he calls her a very, you know, bad thing, and she wants to kind of have a talk with him. So she she goes out at night and sneaks up, you know, sneaks to his dorm, but he's not there. So she and and she looks out the window and sees him across the ground, so she runs after him. So everyone's there. The prank happens, and Lily sees James pull him back. And from her perspective, it's like James was saving him. And in a sense, in a sense he was, you know. So I don't want Lily to be conned here and think that James heroically leapt forth and saved Stape. No, he it was his fault in the first place. But Lily should see that and understand it. But when she sees James, you know, pull Sirius back, I think that should be the moment where she begins to see him differently. Because the truth is James is is stupid. He's a really idiotic guy, but he knows what is right and what is wrong, and that's what we're seeing in this moment. He knows that, yes, it is funny to see Snape get ripped apart. I know, I know. But that's just wrong. And Snape, as awful, as little, as greasy haired as James thinks he is, James does not think he deserves to die. So he pulls Snape back at the very last moment. And I think they they should have like this is a no music moment. We were talking about music at the beginning of this episode. This is a no music moment. They look into each other's eyes, it is such an intense, just like it's it's such an intense understanding. And just like that, Snape runs off and Lily runs off after him. So that is the end of the episode. Wow! Let me tell you, I had so much fun writing that, and that came out great. I am so pleased to have made that. There are so many cool moments in that episode, and I am just I am so, so thrilled to see that come to life on the screen. We just set up so many cool storylines, and I am thrilled to revisit some of those things that we were just talking about. Of course, we've got two more seasons of absolute uh gold when it comes to memory, Harry's past, and of course the the Marauders, Snape and Lily. This is a a a saga that is far from over, but we do have an episode to get to after this. So let's move on.

Back to Harry for episode eight

SPEAKER_00 35:47

So here we are in episode eight, and this episode begins with classes, and we are back in Harry's time. Let me say that is a very important part of this. But I think what I would love to do is kind of have some like a little Easter egg, like a little transition, because it's a little um a little jarring to go straight, you know, straight into uh Harry's time from Jane's. So maybe there's something like the last shot of uh the of episode seven is you know, Snape runs away and Lily runs after him, and we kind of see them going off into the distance towards the castle, and we kind of pan up to the castle. And then that's the last shot of that episode, and then the first shot of this this episode is like kind of the same thing where we see the castle, maybe it's like morning, maybe we see the sun just coming up. You know, that's I think actually there you go. That's that's perfect. Uh it was nighttime, and we see the castle, and then the beginning of episode eight is it's morning, you know. We start on pitch black, and then we see, you know, the first light is the sun coming over the mountains in the distance, and we see the cat we're looking at Hogwarts, and it slowly rises, and we we see uh the the uh the day beginning. And here we are, and it should be a pretty chill environment in Hogwarts. So, what I want to do is again start with classes. The important part of this is Ferenzi. Ferenzi is here uh because Trelawney was unfortunately sacked at the uh uh in in the last episode, so, or two episodes ago. So she uh is now uh just living at Hogwarts, she's not teaching divination anymore. That is now Ferenzi's job. So he is here, he has a nice solid ground floor classroom, and they have a class with him, and it should be really cool. I'm looking forward to seeing that. Uh I like in the book, it's very nature-oriented, and he uh talks about smoke signals and things like that. I think the centaurs are very wise, uh much smarter, that's for sure, than the uh wizards of the castle. So I think that would be a really cool thing to see, is you know, his class. So uh I want to see some parallels, maybe, like some similar shots to last episode. Like we saw uh James, you know, strutting down the hallway with his pack of friends. Maybe we see something like exactly the framed like that with Harry walking down the hallway now. Uh, but he's, you know, he's flanked by some of his friends, and it's less brazen, you know, he's he's less of a um his head is a bit smaller, I guess is a good way of putting it there. Uh so we see him there, uh, and then we also, you know, we have little moments here and there. So it should just be kind of getting back into the flow of things. But the underlying current is the DA, because that's kind of the first big event. Uh, there are a few big events we have in this episode. The DA is one of them. So we should have there are two meetings. I want to have two DA meetings in this uh in this episode, and they are both about patronuses, because that is what we are beginning. And I want it to feel a little different. I want those meetings to feel a little different because the patronuses are really, first of all, really hard, and second of all, really important. I always think of Patronuses in context when when talking about the DA. I always think of the Battle of Hogwarts because when uh it's it was a very brief shot in the film, and I think it was uh it was the book as well. Uh when there are, you know, a thousand dementors gliding across the bridge. We have Aberforth, and I think in the book it's like Luna and Sheamus. I I forget who it is in the film. Uh, but you know, Aberforth and some of the DA members uh casting their their Patronases at the Dementors and defending them off. I always think of that moment because we're kind of building up that um that relationship with Patronuses now. Uh and another reason I like that scene is it's it's kind of like a grim callback almost, and that's kind of how I feel. Whenever I see those those Patronuses and see though those people cast it, I kind of get like a spark of memory of this very class, of, of this DA, you know, these few DA meetings where they learn the Patronases. And I kind of are I'm taking I'm taken back to that time briefly, and then kind of taken back into the battle uh as it keeps going. So this is all this is all much later. But all this to say, patronuses are important, and the uh they are gonna have a tough time uh a tough time learning it, which is why I want to spend two classes doing it. And we don't have to kind of you know get very detailed and spend a lot of time in each thing in each one. The second one is going to be a little more eventful, and we will uh explore that shortly. So the first one happens, and this is kind of our introduction. So the way I wanted these two to work is the first one is the introduction, Harry teaches them about Patronasis, and then maybe he, you know, gives Mill some something and he casts his Patronus. And it it should be it should be very impressive. And I think at this point, uh his he's become, you know, magically developed enough that he can produce a very impressive Patronus, uh, you know, kind of without even thinking. And that's that's impressive. And of course, that's also calling back to his uh uh encounter with those two Dementors in Little Winging just a few uh chapters ago. So that's you know another layer to this. And of course, Madame Bones, during his hearing in courtroom 10 with the Wisdom Gamat, um, he was Madame Bones is very impressed that he did have the ability to conjure a fully corporeal patronus, which she avidly put out, pointed out is, you know, uh something that only full-fledged wizards can do. So it was a very impressive thing that she said. So that's kind of giving us the context. I think it's it's easy to kind of overlook just how impressive it actually is, because I mean, a full like a full full patronus, that's everyone, like the whole point of people talking about that is just how hard it is and how full-grown wizards often can't do it. So, needless to say, when Harry casts his Patronus, the room is shocked, and they and they are so, so so impressed by it. So Harry kind of gives them a demonstration and an explanation. What is a patronus, and we see him reflecting, we see Lupin in this moment, kind of teaching Harry how to cast a Patronus. It is now Harry teaching everyone else, and this is uh a cool teacher moment of his. And this is should uh another thing that I was thinking about with this is that this is kind of the first moment that we see him at truly as a teacher. Uh he's been kind of finding his footing as this uh this the second as the winter term has has uh begun. But now he is kind of truly f sunken into this role as the professor. You know, he is a he is a professor essentially at this point. That's kind of how he feels, and he's really getting good at this whole teaching thing. So he finally now kind of has those, the tools in his tool belt to make an effective lesson, and that's what we're also really seeing here. So that's that's the first DA meeting. And then we have more classes, more whatever. Uh I want to see some, you know, some some winter stuff. Uh, because it is uh very soon. This is kind of our last winter for the uh for this season. So let's enjoy it now. Maybe we see spring in between meetings. Uh the snow starts to melt, we see some buds slowly coming through, the uh, you know, very mossy, very earthy, rocky Hogwarts grounds. Uh and then of course the forest maybe starts to shiver awake slightly. Maybe the womping willow kind of begins to sprout something. So uh spring is in the air. The air is very fresh. Uh maybe they don't wear their scarves out, you know, to walk the grounds anymore, but they still, you know, need their gloves and their thick robes, you know. So things like that. I want to set the scene here. Uh and I if you haven't noticed, I'm really big on the environment and nature, kind of where they are, uh, especially as we get deeper and deeper into the story. That's going to play a very big part. And I'm glad to hear that the filmmakers with their whole emphasis on nature are also uh uh they also agree with that. So anyway, side note. But now we have our second day meeting, and I want to split them up because it's important that we show just how long it takes uh for them to get this. I think it'd be kind of a plot hole if by the end of the first meeting they're all like masters at casting patronuses. That's not it shouldn't really work that way. So it's the second meeting. It's maybe, you know, maybe it's not even the second meeting, but it's this it's it's the sex the second one that we see. This one is going a little bit better because everyone is you know is doing doing well. They're they're getting some forms together, maybe some people can get, you know, larger, you know, shapes, and maybe some even some like claws or some a wing or You know, there's like a snout, or like a horse's head, you know, appears, and they're really starting to get it. And maybe by the end, there are some, you know, some some some rabbits running around. We see that uh in the film. Ron's dog is running around, and Hermione's otter is kind of swimming, and Ginny uh has a horse, right? So Jinny's horse is there, and uh Luna's rabbit is also prancing around the ceiling. Uh they hear they hear this like boom in the distance. And that kind of stops them short. They aren't quite sure what that is. You know, it's it sounded very large and very far away. And then they hear it again, another boom. It's louder, it seems almost closer, and now everyone's kind of not sure what's going on. And then they hear something louder, like something pounding on the door. It's a boom. And they turn and it's the wall, they begin to realize it's the wall. One final bam! And the wall explodes. Umbridge is here to crash the party, so I told you it'd get a little more eventful in meeting too, and here we are. Uh Eloise Midgen, unfortunately, has spilled the beans. Uh no, sorry. Eloise Midgen. Marietta Edgecomb. Uh there. It's uh, I guess I was I was thinking NPC Hogwarts Girl. Uh I just hit hit the wrong one. There you go. Uh, it is Marietta Edgecombe, uh chose friend who wasn't quite sure about this whole thing to begin with. She's the whistleblower, and Umbridge storms in with Malfoy and his gang, and they pounce and they grab everyone, and spells are flying, and it should be, it should be like a a scuffle. You know, that's really how it should feel. A scuffle. And uh Harry tries to slip away through the through the mayhem, but Malfoy not gonna let that happen. Malfoy trips him and takes him to Umbridge himself, and Umbridge drags him up to Dumbledore's office, where we have, I think it's uh gosh, is Kingsley there? I think Kingsley Percy is there. Uh it's important that Percy's there. I don't like in the film how it's Percy dragging him. That feels a little much. But Percy is there watching with the minister who is there. Kingsley, uh Umbridge is there, Malfoy, who is the one who is uh dragging him, and then of course Dumbledore. So this is uh a fun scene, and this is kind of where Dumbledore's army is unfortunately divulged. Uh so uh Umbridge has the paper, the list of everyone there. She throws it on Dumbledore's desk and says, there, and this is kind of proof. And she says, you know, minister, this is this is what we've been this is what we've been after. We finally have proof of Dumbledore, you know, raising an army to take over the ministry, and he's finally we see that he's developing this weapon. It's this whole like gotcha, you know, finally uh we solved the mystery moment. Because of course it is a pizza park, and she is right that says Dumbledore's army, and it is a you know list of everyone, and they were learning how to cast spells, like very scary, bad combination. And Fudge is incredulous. He says, Oh, Dumbledore, how could you, how could you? And of course, Fudge and Dumbledore are at odds at this point, so they are uh not not very well acquainted in terms of relationship. So they are, you know, flying word words or words are flying, and uh uh and finally Dumbledore says, Yes, you know what? Yes, I confess this is true. I was uh Cornelius exactly as you feared. I was raising an army to defeat you specifically, not Voldemort, who has risen again. And this is should this should be a moment where Dumbledore is stating like like it's like when you say it out loud, it sounds ridiculous. That's kind of what Dumbledore is doing here. He's saying, like, yes, I was personally raising a secret army of fifth-year students to take over the ministry. Like that, like when he says it, it's like, what? Like that's not right. And then Fudge kind of hears it and has like, oh yeah, that's definitely not right. But he kind of can't go back. He has to double down and says, Yes, he confesses, and he says, like, Kingsley sees him. And now we have a classic moment. Uh I'll I'll combine two moments here. So in the film, what happens now is Fox flies down from his perch, Dumbledore raises his hands above his head, uh, and kind of makes contact with Fox and disappears in a flash of flames. In the book, it's described as a silver uh flash of light. That's just so lame. We gotta do the the the the film version. But um, I don't think I think we should make kind of do a combo, because it's kind of like why does Fox have to be involved? It's kind of what I'm thinking here. That's I that I never really understood that in the film. Like, why does Fox like jump down and that's how he decided. Like, that seems like Dumbledore would kind of be beyond that. So I think what should happen is the silver light doesn't quite track, but you know, maybe Dumbledore, like, uh just to make it seem big and grandiose and kind of like he's a super villain escaping, he, you know, bursts into flames, you know, he himself bursts into flames, or he maybe he disapparates in a burst of flame, or something like that. I I I like the flames idea because it's very flashy and it's kind of this, you know, big like he's gone moment. And then, you know, everyone's kind of knocked back by the force, and then we absolutely need the Kingsley line after that. And I will say, I it's okay who it's a little different, but you know, I oh gosh, just thinking about it, it's the funniest. You know, he Kingsley turns and says, Well, you may not like it, minister, but Dumbledore's got style. It's just it's like because Kingsley is clearly the most he's taking this so unseriously. Like, obviously, he's on Dumbledore's side, so he couldn't care less if they got him or not. Uh so Kingsley is just, and I I love Fudge is just like shocked, like open mouth looking at Kingsley. And it is kind of a pause for laughs moment uh from Fudge, but you know, still I think it's effective. So it's okay if it's not that that wording exactly, but it is that's just so funny. So I think that's a great, a great place uh for that for that sequence to end, and now Dumbledore is free. But there is uh there are I think one more thing that I want to discuss in this episode, so let's move

Umbridge runs Hogwarts with a sharp eye

SPEAKER_00 50:12

on. Umbridge and the newly formed Inquisitorial Squad now run the castle because of course Dumbledore is gone. So Umbridge is the new headmistress. She is the high inquisitor educational decree uh head mistress of Hogwarts, and it is a tight ship. Very strict. She is, you know, I I like the scene of her walking through the hall in the in the film, uh, you know, fixing things and tucking this shirt, and these people are too close, you know, thing things like that. It's very cool, and it is a tough time. Harry is not not enjoying it, uh, not enjoying it at all. And of course, they do have to have their detention. I love their detention, how they have to sit in the Great Hall and all right with that horrible, horrible pencil. I mean, really, it is it is pretty, it is just terrible. And of course, Fred and George don't like it, so they choose uh they choose a uh maybe um bridge. Like I I I would totally see her like adding in like every Friday they have to meet and talk about their goals and talk about like the ministry. It's basically like a propaganda meeting. During one of those, uh, I don't think we should have a whole like Wheezy Wizard Wheezy's thing where they, you know, set off a bunch of fireworks. Like that was a little crazy, but maybe they set off like a ton during that uh, you know, meeting and uh something like that. So, you know, it's it's uh they're causing a disturbance, like the uh rebellion is starting. But the important part of this uh is the end of the episode, and here's what happens it's going to end with an occlumency lesson because those are still going on. I think you know Snape was not happy at all with how Harry was uh, you know, behaving, and they had a ta it was maybe they took a break after that last one because Snape was not happy. But I think the reason why he's willing to keep going is one, Dumbledore probably told him to, that's probably the most important reason. And then two, he also kind of realizes that the point of this whole situation is that Harry learns how to do exactly what he just did. So I think Snape can kind of get over that. Uh he can get over the fact that Harry did what he was supposed to and and continue the lessons. So here's what happens they're they're doing the lesson, you know, it's going well, or uh that is to say, going terribly. Uh, and then Malfoy uh walks up and says that um Umbridge wants Snape, you know, for for something. And so Snape has to go, but he says, Harry, do not touch, do not move, do not blink, do not breathe, do not step on anything, or I will absolutely destroy you. And of course, Harry, you know, he says, of course, and Snape walks out. The end of the episode is, of course, Snape has a pensive. And that is what Harry sees. He sees the pensive in the corner, and he knows what it is now, because of course he had uh he's been in Dumbledores, but he sees the pensive and he thinks, oh, I know what that is, and he looks in it. And he this is this is where he uh he goes in it on purpose now, you know. It's not like he's looking closer and closer and then his nose touches and he jumps in now. He sees uh James in the pensive. So this is where we're seeing our two episodes collide here. He sees James in the pensive, and it's that scene that I told you, remember this. When he is levitating Snape, it is that scene. So this is the third time that we've seen the scene. First we saw it from Snape's perspective, then we saw it from James' perspective, now we see it from Harry's, and this is such a juicy moment. Harry goes into the pensive and he watches Snape torment. Uh Snape is just tormented. James is is is you know head dangling him upside down, and Lily's watching, and he sees serious and he sees Loop in there, and he just thinks, like, this is uh awful. Like he's thinking that it is just awful to see them torturing Snape, basically. And and he uh he sees this happening and he is just he is just kind of he's so disappointed to see his father, the person he thought was was was good, you know, doing this horrible thing. And he he uh uh is not happy at all. But Snape Snape appears next to Harry. Harry spent too long in there, and for the second time, Snape drags Harry out of his own memory. And just like that, the episode is over. This was uh this episode, episode 350, definitely one of my favorites so far. Uh that's uh that's definitely occurring to me now that it's that it's over. Uh I always love these episodes, like with episode 7 that we that we just did, where we can really dive into something else. You know, we really could see some other part of the story, and that's exactly what we did with James. We saw his perspective, we saw Snape and Lily, and we kind of we really are beginning to understand these these these characters. So I'm only looking forward to this uh developing further. This is only the beginning. Really, this is only the beginning of these kinds of of episodes, and as the uh story progresses, and as we kind of get a little deeper and deeper and deeper into these characters, we're gonna really begin to dig into some of these parts of them that make them who they are. So stay tuned. That's that's all I gotta say about that. Stay tuned. Uh I hope you enjoyed though, really do. Uh, if you did, go ahead and share the episode. I don't do anything in that regard. I just sit here and talk to you every week. So if you know someone who you think would enjoy it, go ahead and share. Takes you text it, you can tell them, you can send them a letter by dub, whatever it is, whatever works for you, it all works for me. So that would really help me out if you would do that. And of course, questions, comments, topics, anything at all, thepodger discussion at gmail.com. That is thepodger discussion at gmail.com. Alright, that is everything I have for you today. Again, so much hope you enjoyed. Have a wonderful week. Do me that favor, have a wonderful week, uh, and I will see you next week. As always, remember that happiness can be found even in the darkest of times if one only remembers to turn on the light. I will see you all later.